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Plot Update 10 March 2021

A year has passed since Fire Lord Zuko ascended the throne, and it seems like trouble is brewing between the Fire Nation and the Earth Kingdom once more. The Fire Lord and the Avatar began the Harmony Restoration Movement to restore the Fire Nation Colonies to their pre-war state by bringing any Fire Nation nationals back home, but for many of the citizens — of mixed Fire Nation and Earth Kingdom … Read more ›

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Zuko's Strange Change

jin
Dec 10, 2006 23:56:03 GMT -6

Post by jin on Dec 10, 2006 23:56:03 GMT -6

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yeah but sokka strikes me as the sort of guy who would have a few girls on the go. So good luck to him hahaha! i can just imagine if toph and aang got together. It would be like the episode when she first started teaching him earthbending. now thats a relationship to be afraid of
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xarrase
Dec 11, 2006 0:01:03 GMT -6

Post by xarrase on Dec 11, 2006 0:01:03 GMT -6

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Yeah, but that relationship would be based on force. And all the people that base relationships on force fail miserably. THIS MEANS YOU, PEOPLE THAT I DO NOT KNOW OF!
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jin
Dec 11, 2006 0:06:03 GMT -6

Post by jin on Dec 11, 2006 0:06:03 GMT -6

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lol. yeah but you find that majority of relationships, though doomed to fail are like that. Nah to tell you the truth, when i watch avatar i dont think about who is dating who. i think, 'wow, i wish i could throw fire from my hands'. OHHHH my avatar book 1 box set arrived today! WOOOOOO!
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xarrase
Dec 11, 2006 0:12:26 GMT -6

Post by xarrase on Dec 11, 2006 0:12:26 GMT -6

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Sweet, I wish I could get my hands on some Avatar DVDs. I'm still stuck here with my HDTV...which, now that I think about it, isn't that bad. But it'd be better if I had one of those TVR thingies...
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jin
Dec 11, 2006 0:21:11 GMT -6

Post by jin on Dec 11, 2006 0:21:11 GMT -6

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haahaha i bought it off amazon.com the other day coz i cant buy it anywhere near where i live. its so depressing. but now i have it hahaha.... i might go watch it!!
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xarrase
Dec 11, 2006 0:24:53 GMT -6

Post by xarrase on Dec 11, 2006 0:24:53 GMT -6

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Hehehe...go watch it. I gotta go to bed anyways. If you watch it enough you can pay attention to the little details most of us ramble on about. So, yeah, go watch the thing!
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jin
Dec 11, 2006 1:44:43 GMT -6

Post by jin on Dec 11, 2006 1:44:43 GMT -6

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I just watched my fave episode from book 1 , the deserter. Master Jeong Jeong is awesome. How random is jay hahahaha.
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xarrase
Dec 11, 2006 2:06:48 GMT -6

Post by xarrase on Dec 11, 2006 2:06:48 GMT -6

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I never got to see that one, but I heard it was great. Oh well. Keep watching and you'll see the not so hidden romances in the show. It's one of my hobbies, besides studying the bendings.
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jin
Dec 11, 2006 2:16:29 GMT -6

Post by jin on Dec 11, 2006 2:16:29 GMT -6

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you are missing out!!!! if you go to www.youtube.com you will probably find it.
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xarrase
Dec 11, 2006 2:36:30 GMT -6

Post by xarrase on Dec 11, 2006 2:36:30 GMT -6

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Okay I will try ;D It's actually not hard to find illegal videos on youtube...*cough* Sadly, Avatar has become a victim. Along with Xiaolin Showdown, a show that I barely, if ever, watch.
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Post by Gia on Dec 11, 2006 12:53:30 GMT -6

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This is about Zuko's change, not bending. Stop the discussion about bending here and now, and keep all posts over 200 characters, and completely relevent to the topic.
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xarrase
Dec 11, 2006 13:00:21 GMT -6

Post by xarrase on Dec 11, 2006 13:00:21 GMT -6

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Hehe, sorry, I got a little mixed up between this topic and the metalbending topic...I'm usually one to abide to the rules...once again, sorry. Anyway, anybody else find it strange that Zuko:

-Cut his hair
-Became a refugee
-Is living in Ba Sing Se
-Is becoming nicer
-Became twice as strong

All in the matter of a couple of episodes? We know they're short on time, but this is ridiculous.
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spirit300
Dec 11, 2006 17:00:08 GMT -6

Post by spirit300 on Dec 11, 2006 17:00:08 GMT -6

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those episodes were over the course of a few weeks. Maybe only one or two. Plus, attractive girls can have a huge impact on guys. Wise fatherly figures are also a big impact **cough**Iroh**cough**cough**

And as for the hair thing, I think that is either a symbolic thing or it is to help his disguise of not being prince zuko.

he became a refugee to hide from the fire nation and earth kingdom. same reason for why he is in Ba Sing Se,

he became stronger because bender has alot to do with emotions. his metamorphosis has made him stronger by allowing him to control his emotions and fire stronger.
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xarrase
Dec 11, 2006 17:15:57 GMT -6

Post by xarrase on Dec 11, 2006 17:15:57 GMT -6

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I realize the cause of these things happening, what I don't understand is how they crammed them all in the matter of less than five episodes. How anyone can get through all that in a matter of say three hours of episodes is beyond me, even by a shred of reasoning.
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shikimori
Dec 11, 2006 23:22:50 GMT -6

Post by shikimori on Dec 11, 2006 23:22:50 GMT -6

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You're right, it is strange how they crammed what should take about half a season of growth into five episodes. I think what they were trying to show was his extreme metamorphosis though. I agree that it IS a bit strange (Just like Aang opening the chakras in a matter or hours when it takes years of practice to concentrate your chakra/chi/energy into ANYTHING... but that's another point for another time ^_^;;) that they were able to rush it like that.

The metamorphosis also might have created a weak point in his life where he was easily malleable to the influences around him. Azula just happened to get to him first, playing off of his weakness, and bended him to her wills. She may not have known about his metamorphosis but she coud obvously see that she could manipulate him at this time. I still think he's going to betray her and Fire Nation and kick ass while saving Iroh and preventing them from getting Aang and saving Earth Nation, getting them back into the war.

I still love how he combined the bending styles and how he figured it out on his own. Aang had to be told it to come to realize it but Zuko seemed to have a revelation about it, using both water bending and fire bending at once. How else would he have been able to maintain the whips with fire? ;D

Go Zuko! lol
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xarrase
Dec 12, 2006 1:27:33 GMT -6

Post by xarrase on Dec 12, 2006 1:27:33 GMT -6

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What's also strange is how Katara met Jet, liked Jet, didn't like Jet, and forgot Jet all in one episode. Oops! I blinked! I hope I didn't miss a week of events... But the Katara/Jet thing is beside the point. Zuko changed. A lot. That much is obvious. What else is obvious, in my opinion, is that Zuko's gonna betray the fire nation. It's just staring me in the face, yelling like Momo.
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ailin
Dec 31, 2006 22:54:59 GMT -6

Post by ailin on Dec 31, 2006 22:54:59 GMT -6

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I recently rewatched the Earth King, and Zuko's dream. I remember reading (I think it might've been on this board even) that the writers had consulted dream interpreters for Zuko's hallucination/dream. That got me thinking about the exact nature of his metamorphosis, and went about to interpreting the dream myself. It actually is really interesting, and predicts his choice in the season finale of the Guru/Crossroads of Destiny.

So first Zuko sees himself as the Fire Lord. On the surface, this symbolizes Zuko’s desire to fulfill his destiny and claim his rightful place on the throne. Deeper meaning suggests that seeing himself as the Fire Lord (in this case, I went under the dream interpretations for ‘king’) means that he will rise above his problems and adversities.

He is then approached by the two dragons, the blue with Azula’s voice, and the other red with Iroh’s. Obviously Zuko would see Azula as a blue dragon given her characteristic blue firebending. What is less known is that in Chinese traditions the Azure Dragon, the Dragon of the East, is the strongest of the constellations, controls the largest territories and is represented by the spring season. On the other side there is Iroh, the Dragon of the West. They seem to be battling for Zuko’s soul or will, Iroh guiding him to leave his ambition to be the Fire Lord, Azula telling him to rest and to sleep. Seeing dragons signify that Zuko is letting himself get carried away by his passions and that this kind of behavior may lead him into the hands of enemies. He needs to exercise some self-control.

While seeing Azula and Iroh as the dueling dragons of the West and East didn’t surprise me much, nor them battling for Zuko’s destiny within the Fire Nation, what I did find interesting was the meaning for seeing dragons themselves. Zuko is very much the type of person who gets carried away with his passions (or obsessions), and Iroh has tried instilling some self-control in his nephew. Not only this, but it is this very obsessive/passionate behavior that leads Zuko into the hands of his enemies (Azula) whether he sees her as an enemy or not.

Next, the blue dragon tells Zuko to sleep just like his mother and attacks. Because of his mother’s disappearance, it’s easy to believe that Zuko has thought her dead and Azula telling him to sleep is like telling him to die. In dream interpretation, sleep can be synonymous with death, though it does beckon renewal and new beginnings. Azula attacking seems to me that she has won the battle for his will at this point, and has gotten Zuko to ‘sleep.’

He then hears his mother calling out to him. At first I thought this was just a call back to what his mother looked like the last time he saw her, and his need to know what really happened to her. What is far more interesting is the meaning of hearing his mother call out to him. It signifies that he has been negligent in his duties and responsibilities and that he is pursuing the wrong path. As far as being negligent, I believe that this is all from his perspective, and he feels he has been neglecting his responsibilities as the Prince of the Fire Nation and future Fire Lord since he had been branded a traitor. The most interesting part is that this means he is actively pursuing the wrong path. This particular dream ends after this, meaning (to me) that Zuko has taken the wrong path.

I wasn't really able to interpret his false awakening, though it seemed more like a Type 2 where Zuko's environment is normal, awaking in their apartment, but there is something supernatural and suspicious going on (seeing himself with the Aang look). Everything during that type of dream takes on a new meaning, though I'm not entirely positive what that is. Although, seeing an enemy (in whatever fashion) can mean a few things about conflicting attitudes or ideas, being in denial about something (perhaps the true nature of the Fire Nation), or rejecting a person (Aang and his friends when offered the chance to choose 'good). And I found it interesting that Iroh was asleep in Zuko's false awakening, signifying that Zuko is alone in his choice, conflict and possible rejection of his good side.

After looking at all of that, it makes Zuko's choice a lot easier to see. His metamorphosis put him on the 'wrong path.' It doesn't quite explain Happy!Zuko to me, but it certainly predicts his choice and falling back into his pattern of "I must restore my honor."

It took me a while to understand Zuko's decision. While I was watching it my jaw dropped and I couldn't help but say, "What are you doing? You were just trying to challenge Azula to an Agni Kai a little while ago. You're not that dumb are you?"

At first I believed that perhaps he and Iroh had some sort of secret plan. After all, they were left alone, Iroh didn't show up to the fight until after the whole confrontation, and Zuko's expression when he attacked Aang seemed more enraged than normal. I thought that perhaps it was because it was something Zuko didn't really want to do, but needed to. After all this time, I was sure that Zuko wasn't so stupid he would believe more of Azula's lies. It was almost the exact same ploy he fell for in the Avatar State. He may not be the brightest, but Zuko does try to adapt and learn and has the mantra "Azula always lies." How could he believe her? Besides why would Azula want Zuko around with his honor restored? Wouldn't that bump her down in the line of ascention? And I would've figured Zuko'd die before betraying Iroh as he did. If there was one person Zuko cared about more than anyone else, it was Iroh. He went after him when he was kidnapped instead of pursuing the Avatar in the 1st season, and took care of him when Azula injured him.

But, after interpreting the dream, I'm more inclined to believe that Zuko's betrayal is true and that he is in fact on the wrong path. His conflicted feelings about betraying his uncle are true, and that'll be a major story point for him next season. But, I like to remember that in his dream Zuko sees himself as the Fire Lord and thus will eventually be able to overcome his obstacles and adversities. He will find that, as Iroh said, the redemption Azula was offering was not for him, but maybe he'll find out the truth of his mother's disappearance in the process.

It'll take a lot more effort, but I believe eventually Zuko will end up joining Team Avatar and will become the "beautiful prince" that Iroh said he'll become.

Wow, I must seem really annoyingly long winded after all this. I hope I stayed relatively on topic. I figured since this was about Zuko's change, and his dream was connected to his change, it was the right place. Please let me know if I was wrong.

Oh, and while this may seem a little off topic, was anyone else touched by Iroh's statement about the dark tunnel and how we may not always see the end, but if we keep going we'll eventually find ourselves in a better place? Maybe because this was the last episode with Mako as Iroh (right? I know that the last dialogue he recorded was for Tales of Ba Sing Se, but he didn't record any for Season 3 as far as I know...), that sentence just gets me every time I hear it.
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shizune
Jan 6, 2007 21:20:36 GMT -6

Post by shizune on Jan 6, 2007 21:20:36 GMT -6

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Honestly I loved Zuko's betayal. It gave a great plot even a better a twist. Zuko leaving the one person who was always there for him. I think this gives Iroh a reason to team up with Aang and the gang (am I the only one who wants him to join them??????) anywho Zuko's change was waaaaaaay too weird all smilie and happily that gave me the creeps. For Zuko's fighting style its changed alot almost like Katara's. (the fire whip?!?! wasnt that a water bender move ) I think hes just trying like Iroh have his own style and using the others weakness against others.

(( if this makes no sense i dont care. Pretty darn tired at the moment. ))
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entreri
Jan 7, 2007 2:35:39 GMT -6

Post by entreri on Jan 7, 2007 2:35:39 GMT -6

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I'm with you Shizune. I think now that Zuko has picked sides, Iroh will have no choice but to escape captivity and go with Aang and Co., giving Aang the chance to learn fire bending. I mean come on, Toph and him are already friends... And plus, I don't think Iroh is loyal to the Fire Nation, like it might look, but only to Zuko. With Zuko gone, and knowing that he has to do something, Aang and Co. are his only choice.

As for Zuko's sudden change, it was a bit creepy and, well, sudden, so I didn't think it was going to last. He changed so suddenly that at the first 'nudge', he would slip back to his old self. Azula 'nudged' him by offering his honour back, and he instantly returned to normal. That is unless Zuko actually has something else up his sleeve...... which I doubt...
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rianaijou
Apr 4, 2007 22:49:31 GMT -6

Post by rianaijou on Apr 4, 2007 22:49:31 GMT -6

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Ai Lin, you went pretty nuts with that! Good points all around though.

I re-watched the final fight scene just to get a better feel for the situation.

I feel that Zuko's betrayal and return to the Fire Nation is a clever ruse. Look at the change he went through. It was genuine. But, there was still ambition in him. He just didn't have the opportunity to show it.

When Azula gave him that offer, he saw it as an advantage. Not only for him, but for Iroh as well. Notice that it took him a short time to catch up to Azula, and he most likely ran to catch up. That meant either he spent several moments debating on his life in silence, or that he had time for a conversation with Iroh.

I look at it this way. Zuko told Iroh he was going to "betray" him, and join up with Azula. And if Iroh intervened, allowing the Avatar to escape, then he would be imprisoned and taken back to the Fire Nation. Now both Firebenders who have any chance of challenging Azula and Ozai are back in their home turf, and Zuko is in a position that he can free Iroh. Win/win.

Notice that while Aang was transforming into the Avatar State, and even as he rose up in it, Zuko did nothing. He even let his guard down. Now Zuko KNOWS what the Avatar State is, and what it is capable of, if Azula doesn't. Yet he did nothing? Warned nobody. He didn't try to stop Aang either.

Then, after Katara had caught Aang and Iroh jumped down, he did nothing again. If he was so interested in capturing the Avatar and being loyal to the Fire Lord again, wouldn't he at least try to get past Iroh, if he found himself unable to fight his uncle? I believe Iroh and Zuko are planning something, as they did on the ship when Zuko was thought dead.

That's part of my theory.

To go on what you said, Ai Lin, I agree with most of your dream analysis. But I believe to mean that Zuko simply hasn't given up on being Fire Lord. It doesn't necessarily mean he's evil, or chose the definite wrong path. I also believe he still wants the Avatar, because he wants to rule as Fire Lord, and Aang won't allow that. He also knows that the world won't bow down to the Fire Nation, no matter what, as long as the Avatar is around.

I just don't see that Zuko has reverted completely to his own ways.
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