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Plot Update 10 March 2021

A year has passed since Fire Lord Zuko ascended the throne, and it seems like trouble is brewing between the Fire Nation and the Earth Kingdom once more. The Fire Lord and the Avatar began the Harmony Restoration Movement to restore the Fire Nation Colonies to their pre-war state by bringing any Fire Nation nationals back home, but for many of the citizens — of mixed Fire Nation and Earth Kingdom … Read more ›

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something to think about

zell
Oct 22, 2006 21:20:21 GMT -6

Post by zell on Oct 22, 2006 21:20:21 GMT -6

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well i was walking the other day and realized something astounding
the elements are based off of the japanese elements right
well they also might go deeper than that
bear with me

Earth: Solid
Water: Liquid
Air: Gas
and some people know that there is actually a fourth kind
Fir: Plasma
but... that doesnt exsplain the mixtures and how earth is only the ground
but shouldn't earth benders be able to use pots made from rock or otherthings that are a majority earth made like glass... glass is super heated sand after all
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sethwynd
Oct 22, 2006 23:29:04 GMT -6

Post by sethwynd on Oct 22, 2006 23:29:04 GMT -6

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I realized something astounding too; you need to get back to science class.

If you HAD, you'd realize what you're saying is borderline ridiculous.

First of all; there is a HUGE difference between fire and plasma. Plasma is insanely hot, and can only be contained via magnetic fields. In other words, it will utterly destroy anything it comes in contact with, so a strong magnetic field is the only way you could possibly contain it.

Fire, you can contain and extinguish in any number of ways. That, and you can touch it and get burns; not pull away a stump of an arm....unless one is really lacking in the mental proficiency category; and keeps their arm in the fire for an incredibly long period of time.

Secondly; yes, you could get away with calling air a gas, water a liquid, and earth a solid. In their most common forms anyway. Every element has a form in one of the states of matter however, which makes your revelation completely pointless.

Take Oxygen for example. It's most commonly found as a gas, and that's usually what you think of. However, both liquid and solid states of pure oxygen DO exist. As for water; water vapor is a gas, and ice is a solid. The composition of each has not changed, yet the state of matter has.

As for why they can't make things from mixtures .... well, I find it incredibly unlikely that earthbenders don't use their skills to make things like pottery, buildings, etcetera, but somehow I doubt they can simply make glass via bending. yes, it's superheated sand. But earthbenders lack the ability to superheat anything; and firebenders lack the ability to manipulate the sand that they need to heat.

So, no, you didn't realize anything astounding, you had what George Carlin would dub a "brain fart."

EDIT: And they're not the Japanese elements >.< ... if anything, they're either Chinese, Indian, or Greek; though considering how a vast majority of Avatar is drawn from Asian themes, the creators most likely went with the Chinese and left out the fifth element.
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Last edit by sethwynd: Oct 22, 2006 23:33:11 GMT -6
karl
Oct 23, 2006 8:28:04 GMT -6

Post by karl on Oct 23, 2006 8:28:04 GMT -6

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Intresting to note: Ever read a chemy called al? I thought not. Well, it turns out that orginally the four alchemic elements are actually represented by Earth, Water, Air, and Fire. Yet, if these are also considered to represent each state of matter, which some say they do, is fire not just a form oxygen plasma? And furthermore... The original elements as stated by various ancient cultures show something that all living things are made of.

Earth: Substance. Decayed matter is dust, and also is mainly what quite a bit of Earth is. (at least soil)
Water/Air: The amount of both of these substances that we pass through are systems, of course it seems we are made of them!
Fire: Energy. How do we get life? Fire. Also shows intellegence.
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hieu
Oct 23, 2006 13:55:03 GMT -6

Post by hieu on Oct 23, 2006 13:55:03 GMT -6

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Like Makoto said please go back to school and do a bit of relearning or researching about some of the things you just mentioned.

Though you are right about the elements of the japanese you missed the fifth element of "void".

So when you said it didn't make sense you were absolutely right because the things you said were irrelevant in the direction you were heading.

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zell
Oct 24, 2006 12:55:39 GMT -6

Post by zell on Oct 24, 2006 12:55:39 GMT -6

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i dont research much, i just walk alot
and it was just a thing bordering on curiousity not ment to be taken so... seriously

and you make a good point from the sand thing but i ment that since in essence it is sand in a superheated and cooled state wouldnt earth benders be able to use it and bend with it???

for the fire thing, fire can be affected by magnets but the thing is you need a really powerful magnet... and if fire isn't plasma than what form of mater would it be considered, not solid due to the obvious reason, not gas because it lacks the attributes that gases usually have, not liquid because it doesnt take the form of the container which it is placed in
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hieu
Oct 24, 2006 18:10:04 GMT -6

Post by hieu on Oct 24, 2006 18:10:04 GMT -6

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fire is not an object. What it is is combustion of molecules.

Taken directly form www.dictionary.com


fire  /faɪər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fahyuhr] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, fired, fir‧ing.
–noun
1. a state, process, or instance of combustion in which fuel or other material is ignited and combined with oxygen, giving off light, heat, and flame.

and to help makoto out on the sand bit.

the answer is no
because glass is a byproduct of heating sand. When things are superheated their entire molecular structure is changed and the material can sometimes change into something different as electrons of the atoms become shared and move atoms together.

If you want to take it to an avatar show science level, then it would be like saying why can't the Earthbenders bend metal? Isn't metal from the earth and part of earth?
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loki
Dec 9, 2006 11:35:27 GMT -6

Post by loki on Dec 9, 2006 11:35:27 GMT -6

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Fire IS a form of plasma. Plasma is a when a material gets so hot, or in other words kinetically sharger that protons break away from electrons. Examples are lightning, auroras (borealis and australieas), and, yes, fire.
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hieu
Dec 9, 2006 14:50:41 GMT -6

Post by hieu on Dec 9, 2006 14:50:41 GMT -6

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^^Loki that's opinionated and rather incomplete =\ no offense.

Lightning is NOT fire. Though the temperatures lightning has in capable of making fire.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Taken from NASA's studies

www-spof.gsfc.nasa.gov/Education/FAQs7.html#q97

97. Is fire a plasma?

The fire given off when burning for example, paper, wood, gasoline--is that another of the manifestations of a plasma? If it isn't plasma that makes the fire shine--what is it?
Reply
You asked a good question, but the answer is--no, fire is not hot enough to create a plasma.

Most flames are yellow. The main reason is that flames contain little bits of burned material--bits which later form its smoke--and they get hot enough to glow. Hot solid materials always glow--for instance, the filament in a lightbulb. However ,glowing in yellow light does not require a very hot temperature.

To create a plasma takes more energy, and requires a higher temperature than the flame provides. The collisions between atoms need to be energetic enough to kick an electron completely out of the atom.

An electric arc welder drives a huge current across a narrow juncture where two pieces of metal touch, and that creates a temperature high enough to create a plasma. The surrounding air is also hot enough. After touching the two pieces can be separated, and the air continues to carry the electric current, and to heat enough to create the plasma. The metal tip glow so brightly (white light, with a lot of eye-damaging ultra-violet) that the welder can only view the work through a thick dark screen.

Before writing to you, just to make sure, I took an electric meter and measured the resistance between two metal contacts separated by a small distance, putting both in the flame of a gas oven, which gets pretty hot. No electric current could be detected, both inside the flame and away from it, meaning the flame did not conduct any observable electric current.
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vanga
Dec 9, 2006 15:39:47 GMT -6

Post by vanga on Dec 9, 2006 15:39:47 GMT -6

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One thing to take into consideration is that those cultures who believed in the elements of earth, wind, water and fire believed that everything in the world was made up of these elements, right? Just as we now know to recognize the entire spectrum of elements on the Periodic Table. So, if Avatar revolves around the old beliefs and those are what governs the scientific laws of that particular world, then everything falls into one of the four bending arts. Take glass for example, which has alraedy been discussed in this thread, which bender could bend glass in some way, if all matter falls into one of the four elements?

((Another speculation is if Earthbenders can control a person's body, since i think skin and muscle and all that stuff would fall into the element of Earth. Ofcourse for the sake of a show, I'm sure the creators would intentionally ignore this and other similar matters such as the connection between blood and fire [or was it water, I can never remember what fell into what]))
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