i believe it's both, but it would take incredible masters to actually bend it. Reason is because it contains heat and earth.

fire benders bend heat and concentrate it to become flames
Earth benders bend rock.

Well since lava/magma is rock AND heat (fire) holding then it would be both. I don't know about anyone bending lava. Toph is insane as is and getting her to do bend lava just adds to her power making her practically a god among non-avatar benders

I beleive only Earth Benders could bend it and it would take a great mastery of eath bending to do so, Simply cuz Fire benders dont move their element. I mean they create the fire but you never really see them move another fire. Earth Benders can bend anything with rock remaining in it but I think it would take even more of a mastery then metal bending to bend lava.

I think it's a good question, and quite a complicated one.

Firstly, earth benders would certainly be able to bend it because it's just melted rock, same was water benders can bend ice. It's a lot more complicated when it comes to fire though. I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of what Takano was saying about fire benders bending heat, which becomes fire.

Now, because heat is not a substance and you can't say that an object is made out of heat the same way you can say an object is made out of earth or water(ice). So since, lava/magma is not made out of heat, fire benders can not bend it, but they can bend the intense heat that is around the lava/magma, and because there's a lot of it, they have a lot to work with, same way a water bender has a lot to work with in the middle of an ocean, or an earth benders has a lot to work with in a rocky region.

You can almost think about heat as actual matter in the case of bending.
Water bender: water
Earth bender: earth
Air bender: air
Fire bender: heat

In conclusion, no, fire benders can not bend lava, but they are very powerful around it.

Maybe I should have been more clear in my initial post, because now that the thread has seemingly kicked up a notch with the amount of posting people are beginning to argue against something that can't be disputed.

I suppose I should bold a very important point. Firebending has already been used to bend lava. It has been seen in "The Avatar State." They gave four clips, playing one after another in a sequence, showing past lives of the Avatar performing each of the four elements. When it came to firebending you could see the bender perform a motion and cause volcanoes to erupt in the background.

There's no way that this can be argued in my eyes. The only retort I've gotten so far concerning it is that the Avatar in the clip was 'using Earthbending to demonstrate the power of Fire' or some such thing, but come now, that's rather flimsy at best. The truth is that in the show, the animators were showing four seperate Avatars using four seperate elements to demonstrate the vast power of each while in the Avatar State. There is nothing deceitful about it, the proof has been seen in the show.

So, a more fitting stance to take on this topic would be that while Firebenders can bend lava, can Earthbenders do the same? Some people might have arguments still, concerning if lava can indeed be bent by Firebenders. However, I all but gaurentee that they'll be equally flimsy in comparison to what has been irrefutably proven on the show.

Back on topic, I still think lava can be bent by both art forms. Firebending because it has been shown and because it's befitting as lava burns and devoures everything in its path as fire and lightning do. Earthbending because all lava really turns out to be is molten rock, or earth.

Well yeah, in the show, it can obviously be bended by both bending styles for the exact reasons you [Doku] mentioned. Fire bending because it was shown in show, and earth bending because lava is rock. There can be no argument about it, and therefore, no question.

But since you asked the question, the rest of us though about it in the context that if bending was real, how would it work, and more to the point, where would lava fit in. This context applies to the rp world, and therefore, the question would be more relevant there. Hence, our replies.

Well, that's an interesting way to look at the bending arts, from a real world perspective. In that way, one might not see Firebending able to bend lava, but that's not how people can debate over matters of the Avatar world. I've seen so many examples of people trying to use our science to justify their beliefs in an entirely different world, trying to bring out the periodic table and various elements upon it at one extreme.

But one has to realize that the Avatar World is not based on our scientific knowledge, but old world beliefs stemming from the notion that everything is made up of four distinct elements: Earth, Wind, Water and Fire. There are also alot of other matters that simply can't be argued against using the common knowledge of the present, because its useless in the Avatar World.

That's why when one argues a case concerning a matter of the show, they have to think how it would work in the show's world, not their own world. The facts you bring to bare must work in the world in question.

I think lava is just Earth, since lava is just another form of earth, just like sand or metal. Fire benders only deal with pure heat, so lava isnt their thing.

And the firebender who bent lava was the Avatar, so it couldve just been him using his earthbending techniques...

And Doku, I think we all realize that the stuff that goes on in this thread doesnt have any impact on the RP. The Avatar world isnt based on science at all, so none of these postulizations have any real credit. We're just looking at things from a scientific front, so its no big deal. Let us have our fun, mkay? If you're going to open a thread for discussion, dont say that our arguments have absolutely no merit. So what if they use firebending to bend lava? Maybe some think it ought to be earth, or that that clip(which, by the way, you are interpreting rather loosely IMHO) didnt necessarily mean that that Avatar was a firebender.

Personally, and this is just me, I think that that Avatar in particular was mixing them. Just because he was dressed in Fire Nation clothing doesnt mean he was firebending only, right? I dont think it was just earthbending; doesnt fit in with ancient Chinese philosophy. I think it was a mix, and so in the show it would require both, although scientifically only an Earthbender is needed.

I'd say it falls under Earthbending. One should consider that lava isn't "hard fire" or "viscous fire" but rather extremely hot rock, so how it melts and becomes 'Molten.' So from a realistic perspective, lava bending would be a form of earthbending, and I don't think the firebenders would have any control over it whatsoever, but only what is lit on fire as a result of the lava's presense.

I mean sure we're dealing with Avatar. In any anime (or something close to being anime) it seems like the symbolic aspect comes before the realism aspect. I mean, the Firebenders gain power from a comet, but aren't comets made of ice? Wouldn't this benefit the Water Tribes?

But when you look at a comet, you don't see ice, you see a big fireball. So I guess they base it on appearances and symbolism rather than actual scientific facts.

Nonetheless, in my opinion, it'd be stupid if firebenders could bend lava. It seems like a power-gamer's dream, if anything. Earthbenders could probably do it, but I bet it'd prove extremely difficult since it's somewhat fluidic, rather than stiff like rock.

Also, people who are pointing out the volcano scene should think harder. He's probably not manipulating the lava OUT of the volcano, but rather manipulating the heat INSIDE the volcano to INCITE the eruption. So, I'd say a firebender could CAUSE an eruption, (a very skilled one at least) but not actually control and direct the lava itself.

I agree with Takano.

Lava could be manipulted by earthbenders and firebenders.

Lava is just a molten state of "earth," jst like water is a molten state of ice.

Firebenders shouldn't have a problem bending lava either. If you think about it - fire is just "really hot air." Technicially firebenders can bend air, so long as it's superheated.
Lava is "really hot earth" therefore firebenders could also bend lava.
It's all in the temperature.

Comment To Kyro: Its not all in the temperature or they could bend water that has been heated.

I dont think fire benders could "bend" lava. All they do is heat stuff up really fast using the heat from fire they create to heat the air infront of it faster. They could how ever make valcanoes erupt, if they were strong enough or could get close enough.

And I think its been officialized, Earthbenders Can Bend Lava.

I think they need to have Aang bend Lava. That would kick ass.

Well, in the show, some waterbenders were able to bend vines by manipulating the water inside. So do you think firebenders could bend lava by manipulating the heat inside of it?

And as far as it taking an extremely skilled earthbender or firebender to bend lava, I don't think that's true. After all, on the show there are many waterbenders bending both ice and water, and lava is to rock, as water is to ice (sounds like an SAT question lol) so if so many waterbenders can bend ice/water/steam, why couldn't a regular earthbender bend lava?

Another question: If waterbenders can turn water into either ice or steam, could an earthbender turn rock into lava and vice versa?

(By the way, this isn't necessarily what I think, they're just questions to think about).

Fire is not just hot air, or temperature. It's more complicated than that. Fire is a chemical reaction, combustion. What a fire bender is controling is the chemical reaction its self.

Firebending stresses disipline and control, why? because fire/chemical reactions are a chaotic object. Once a fire starts it can continue to grow on its own uncontrolled. So a firebender is doing two things.
1) starting the reaction. (all reactions require some energy to jump start them, thus a firebender has to supply the trigger heat)
2) controling the reaction and directing it. Also containing it.

The firebenders draw strengh from the sun and the comet because they are sources of heat and energy. Enegry is needed to start combustion. However this doesn't mean the fire lord was ever able to bend the comet.
Molten lava would be a great source of thermal energy and so in the presence of lava it would make a firebender stronger. However i don't think a firebender would be able to bend the lava since its not really combustion, its just hot. That would be like saying that anything hot would be bendable by a firebender. That would mean red hot metal would be bendable, steam would be bendable, and incadescent light bulb that has been on too long would be bendable, Boiling tar pits would be bendable. That all seems a little too unrealistic for a firebender.

^^a question then. If fire benders create combustion via oxygen source and some flammable substance (oxygen is not flammable but it tends to react frequently when there is anything capable of being burned) Then how did zuko manage to melt the ice back in the season ending of the Water book?

I could of sworn that he melted the ice to get air.

continuing on the sun doesn't not create enough thermal energy to reach the sun, but instead that heat comes through radiation known as UV. as far as i know thats our source of energy and the excessive overflow of other radiations from the sun.

Yes UV is a dangerous radiation, but it does have a large part of our ecosystem's temperature. That's from a scientific point of view which i've found in effective at explaining things in the avatar world =P

Just thoughts i'm wondering about when u explain how firebenders work. no offense or anything

I'm voting for Firbenders only. Since from the looks of it, they can not only bend fire itself, but heat as well (think about it for a second: being that close to fire, and not passing out from heat exhaustion? That, and still able to use firebending with no air present, like when Zuko was encased in ice). Earthbenders on the other hand, cannot control heat on any level, and would likely pass out the moment they even got close to lava.

Also: you're using real-world knowledge again in the Avatar world. Yes, WE know lava is just molten rock; but this is using beliefs about the "elements" dating back centuries. In all likelihood, lava was considered to be liquid fire back then. It could burn and destroy like fire, it was incredibly hot like fire, and it gave off light like fire. By the way of thinking people would have that long ago; that'd mean it likely WAS just another form of fire.

And I have to agree with the OP here: when showing the avatars having the utmost power related to their main elements, and Roku causing volcanoes to erupt, you're using wishful thinking at best to say "well, it was probably earthbending." That fails to show the point of demonstrating FIRE'S power, now doesn't it?

Also, there's the matter of one of you still owing an explanation as to why earthbenders can supposedly control magma, yet not a single earthbender tried to stop the lava coming down toward Aunt Wu's village. Instead, they just helped dig the trench. If it was something they're capable of bending, why didn't they?

I would think that no one tried to stop the lava flowing to Aunt Wu's village because none of them was an out-and-out Master Earthbender. Lavabending would be a high-level master earthbending sort of thing.

I vote Earthbenders can lavabend, because although it is liquid, lava (or magma under the earth's crust) is essentially still rock. Chemically, it is the same compounds as solid earth or rock. It's just in a different phase.

Fire, as it's been pointed out, is a chemical reaction. It's not a "thing" so much as it is an "event" that has to be controlled. I would wager a firebender could use the heat of lava to do some extra fire-damage, though.

Firebenders control combustion. They have to, since thats how fire starts. Even encased in ice, there was still an oxygen source present(even if it were the ice itself- water is 1/3 oxygen) so combustion is still possible. They apparently supply the energy to start the reaction themselves, and can control it. Thats their power.

Lava, not being combustion, is not firebenders territory by my logic. Earthbenders, if they could learn to adapt their bending to it, ought to be able to bend lava, since it is merely earth. They havent yet, though- probably because they are still restricted by their old-time beliefs and so havent attempted it, or maybe because they cannot sense the earth in it(much like they cannot sense the earth in metal, with the exception of Toph.).

Lava, on the other hand, gives off enormous thermal energy. In its presence, firebenders could probably manipulate that energy to begin combustion easily, and even a beginner would then be able to harness massive infernos, and masters of the art would wield incredible destructive power near large lava sources.

As for heat- thermokinesis seems to be an ability of at least 2 of the bending types(fire with fire itself, and water with ice and steam). It lets them manipulate things and change the state of matter they are(water to ice, ice to water etc). However, earthbenders dont need it to control lava, unless they wished to turn regular rock into lava. If they took lava from the natural environment and didnt get too close to it, they wouldnt need to mess with temperatures.

And, Makoto- you seem to miss a main point of this thread. We are all discussing scientific applications of bending. If we wanted to go by ancient Chinese philosophy, these threads would be open-and-shut cases and no fun to debate. As entitled as you are to your opinion, I'd try backing it up with scientific evidence, considering the desire of most of us to apply modern science to these situations.

We're all science geeks here. Dont ruin our fun.

As far as I figure it, everyone seems to stick to a thought here. Keep an open mind, my friends.
It seems that the only way to come to a conclusion on this is to combine ancient wisdom with modern science. In the eyes of a firebender, lava is liquid fire, therefor can be bended (bent? I'm pretty sure not >.>). In reality, they're bending the heat around the lava. Earthbenders, in theory, can bend lava, but I'm sure they've never (and may never) try, quite simply because they don't know that lava is in fact molten rock. Makoto also brought up a very good point--if the earthbenders (and this is teh uber masters, mind you) would they be able to stand the heat? From a distance, they might be able to bend the lava (or even magma 0.0), but up close I'm sure the extreme heat would get to them, so no lava-whips for Toph...

Fire benders don't bend/control heat/energy sources. Firebenders are the energy source. As i said, all chemical reactions require some trigger energy to get them started. Firebenders release energy from within themselves.

Firebenders drawn a part of there strengh from the breath, and then use that to provide energy for starting fires.

As i reclaim, iroh said that you don't actual bend the lighting but guide it. Even though lighting is a massive source of heat and energy, a firebender is not directly bending it. Instead they release heat from within themselves to heat the air and guide it.

When iroh heated his cup of cold tea, he was expelling energy from within through an exhale over the cup. However the heat still only came one source, the bender.

The bender is the source of their controled heat. So even though lava radiate heats, that doesn't mean the bender can control the lava. A bender might be able to soak in that heat and then release it himself, but the bending can't cut out the middle man which is the bender.