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A year has passed since Fire Lord Zuko ascended the throne, and it seems like trouble is brewing between the Fire Nation and the Earth Kingdom once more. The Fire Lord and the Avatar began the Harmony Restoration Movement to restore the Fire Nation Colonies to their pre-war state by bringing any Fire Nation nationals back home, but for many of the citizens — of mixed Fire Nation and Earth Kingdom … Read more ›

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Airbending supremo!!!

jin
Dec 31, 2006 20:21:26 GMT -6

Post by jin on Dec 31, 2006 20:21:26 GMT -6

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Just one quick question. (i know that xar ra se will jump at this :)) Anyways, watching when aang fights another bender, his airbending seems like it can bend the other elements anyway. I mean like when aang is constantly fighting zuko, whenever zuko uses firebending aang just uses airbending to 'bend' the fire in another direction. Really how fair would that be....
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hieu
Jan 1, 2007 2:51:46 GMT -6

Post by hieu on Jan 1, 2007 2:51:46 GMT -6

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Well not really. If you think about the physics of it all. Almost any element can do that depends on the amount of strength in the defense. When aang fights an earthbender Aang (using the boomi vs aang) creates a tornado to redirect it.

Now think of an earthbender doing the same thing. If an earthbender looks like he is going to attack straight forward an earthbender could create a tube to absorb the air and resend it back or where the earth bender pleases. Think of a bendy straw. The straw is bent and the air goes in another direction. The straw would be the earth and you would be the airbender blowing into the straw. that's just an example.

I can see nearly every element being able to do exactly what airbending does except water and fire. The basis of it is all is simply kinetic energy. Or movement energy. If you can move something willingly you can pretty much do when Aang is doing. know wat i mean?

earth x water - creates a hardened tunnel to capture and redirect
earth x fire - create a wall to deflect fire blasts
earth x air - explained above

water x earth - create massive ice slides to change direction. Or just push back with a lot of water
water x fire - impossible to redirect or manipulate another element
water x air - create similar ice tubes.

Fire on the other hand is the hardest to use such an idea
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jin
Jan 1, 2007 3:47:40 GMT -6

Post by jin on Jan 1, 2007 3:47:40 GMT -6

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Wow... i really do like your avatar by the way. I am a bit of a final fantasy fan. anyways. Just thinking about it though i mean, air can make waves, air can make fire spread. I do see your point though. But then again, the only airbender left can bend all the elements so i guess it doesnt matter lol.
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karl
Jan 1, 2007 9:22:00 GMT -6

Post by karl on Jan 1, 2007 9:22:00 GMT -6

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Airbending is a defensive element. Notice how the airbending puts out the fire, it doesn't redirect it. Earth would be hard to redirect very much, just enough to allow the airbender to dodge. Water could be blown away. But airbending can't grab something unless the airbender is unseemingly more powerful than the opposing bender.

Advantage: No element
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ronin
Jan 1, 2007 10:39:28 GMT -6

Post by ronin on Jan 1, 2007 10:39:28 GMT -6

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This reminds me of a discusion I had with one of my friends. This is the order of what he considered the most powerful bending styles. Air, Water, Earth and Fire as the last. Now this made me pissed off. Anyway, Airbending is defensive, it relies on staying out of danger and getting out of danger. The most offensive airbending move I have seen is.... wait... I don't believe I have seen a very offensive move in airbending..... Except a cyclone and a blast of air...

On a side note, I don't believe that whole straw thing makes sense, nor does the tube seem plausible. Earthbender shoots rock, earthbender takes the time to make tunnel to send it back but wait! The rock, if it didn't hit the earthbender already, breaks against the tunnels wall if it doesn't break the wall. If its a airbender against a earthbender and the earthbender does the same thing, the air simply hits the wall, its doesn't get redirected. Water, its splashes agaisnt he wall. Make a massive slide of ice to deflect a earth, the slide shatters. And earth doesn't deflect blasts, it absorbs them. You get where I am going with this?
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hieu
Jan 1, 2007 12:05:08 GMT -6

Post by hieu on Jan 1, 2007 12:05:08 GMT -6

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^^yes i've already taken into consideration the fact things could shatter, but i'm just saying. The possibilities with each element are near limitless. Each element can manipulate another in some form or another.

And as for people saying there is an imbalance in the bendings. I don't believe so. I agree with everyone that says they are completely balance because like i mentioned somewhere if there was an imbalance the war wouldn't be going on.
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ronin
Jan 1, 2007 15:49:02 GMT -6

Post by ronin on Jan 1, 2007 15:49:02 GMT -6

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Yep. My friend is extremely egotistical and won't listen to reason. When I say egotistical I mean he says stuff over and over when you already know what he means. Personally I think he likes to hear his voice. Anyway, you present a point. The possibilities are nearly limitless. Course some things don't always work out but they can still be done. WHOOT! YAY FOR *IMAGINATION*! *Raises hands and makes a half circle with a rainbow trailing behind it.*
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jin
Jan 1, 2007 19:07:02 GMT -6

Post by jin on Jan 1, 2007 19:07:02 GMT -6

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Well as a great martial artist once said. 'No one martial art is greater than the other, It all comes down to the skill of the person practicing them.' I guess that related here as, like takano said. 'No element is greater than the other. Its just the skill of the bender.'

Thank you for all your help with this guys!
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aioriakaji
Jan 1, 2007 20:43:43 GMT -6

Post by aioriakaji on Jan 1, 2007 20:43:43 GMT -6

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Well i don't agree with the idea that air bending is not a dangerous or offensive craft.

If we (if we had the possibility to bend elements) would fight, and i was an air bender, you wouldn't stand a chance of survival, the first thing you throw at me i just bend the air out of your lungs and look on how effectively you will be able to destroy me with, rocks, water and fire while chocking to death lol.
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jin
Jan 1, 2007 21:09:10 GMT -6

Post by jin on Jan 1, 2007 21:09:10 GMT -6

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Wow! that was really passionate Aioria Kaji... maybe i should rp with you one day. Anyways thats fair enough, but what we are trying to say is that it all depends on the bender, not the element. I mean if an earthbender made a big enough rock land on you, theres not much thats going to help you.
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hieu
Jan 1, 2007 21:13:23 GMT -6

Post by hieu on Jan 1, 2007 21:13:23 GMT -6

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^^Aioria . one problem

Our human body uses the air we get instantly. If im correct air is pulled in from the enviroment through the nose (or mouth) into the airway and into our lungs. As soon as the air is there it is processed and broken down into the nitrogen, carbon dioxide, and oxygen. All we need for our cells is really oxygen.

And our body is constantly pulling air in. If you wanted to yes you could pull air out of our lungs, but that creates an increase of pressure for ANYWHERE that can get into our lungs. Remember physically our universe has to use up all it can or pressure will force things to go there. If you manage to remove all the molecules well then pressure will push something into there.

Like when astronauts go into space. They don't open the door and they have to keep the pressure stable or the doors will fling open and everything inside the ship will go into space until both the ship and space have reached an equilibrium.

If you managed to maintain a constant pulling of air from our throats then yes you could win, but then also consider the whole 40 seconds you are depriving us of air. If a person is smart they will continue to breath normally and have you attempt to pull air out of our throats and then they will simply send say a rock, a large tidal wave, or a fire blast at you. This will create a lack of concentration and then the people will use that.

Case Closed. And if you were against a water bender all they'd have to do is send water up your nose and into your esophogus and then you will have ur own airway blocked lol
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aioriakaji
Jan 1, 2007 21:15:11 GMT -6

Post by aioriakaji on Jan 1, 2007 21:15:11 GMT -6

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True enough, but if you compare the ease it would be to bend the air out of someone's direct invironment away from him, and making a rock so big nobody could run from under it is pretty hard to do.

Martial art aren't all abotu skill, its about that split second you get to make a move that matters, i agree that the mroe skilled you are the better you'll react, but i've seen enough lucky knock outs in Mauy Thai to know that luck and opportunity are a big part of a fight.
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hieu
Jan 1, 2007 21:24:08 GMT -6

Post by hieu on Jan 1, 2007 21:24:08 GMT -6

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^^true, but moving ALL of the molecules from a person's environment means you are fighting one of the greatest forces on earth. Pressure. Like i said without something existing in any given place there is going to be a force pushing to get as much into that area. the more you keep the air away from them the more pressure you create and the more you are forced to fight literally against nature itself.

Now i'm not saying creating a rock that you can't run from isn't hard, but you don't need to create a massive rock that is unblockable. Just simply create quicksand for a large enough area. It's pretty hard to multi-task regardless of what element you are.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In the martial art world. Skills is all it is. Luck is only based upon outside forces example would be time. Time works on our bodies. Every Battle drains time and then drains energy. Skill is where it is at and in Mauy Thai the opportunity found are what the skilled people see. If a person is highly skilled they will see more openings. And know what to do and how to time for that opening

It's like saying i will get lucky against a master of say....shaolin tiger style. No i won't get lucky because they could easily overwhelm me and they know my every weakness as soon as i make a move.

The more you see the more you experience the more skilled you will be. It's all knowledge really
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aioriakaji
Jan 1, 2007 21:31:34 GMT -6

Post by aioriakaji on Jan 1, 2007 21:31:34 GMT -6

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True but i disagree with the skill part, i agree with the fact that you see more openings and all, but i got knocked out once, and once only, by a guy who never fought before, he didn't reacted to an attack like i supposed any sane person would and he got lucky, his fist hitted me where it had to and it was lights out for me and i was qouted 20 against 1 lol so it was obviosu who the skilled one was

skill creates an ability to spot opportunities but it surely does not decide the job, its all about that split second, who is the best in that moment and nobodies skill is constant.

For the presiour thing, i think that if you are able to take the air out of the lungs and create an air buble around it to keep air out, you could kill someone, even if it is for a split second but once the air is driven out of the lungs they collaps and they don't open up as easily for the case its impossible to keep the air away, a collapsed lung is somethign that would put someone out of a fight
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ronin
Jan 2, 2007 15:03:02 GMT -6

Post by ronin on Jan 2, 2007 15:03:02 GMT -6

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Aioria, what you say seems wrong to me. Bending the air out of your lungs? It makes little sense and bending the air out of a certain area makes even less sense. Its like bending the water in somebodies body. It can't be done. In my oppinion you can't bring the whole sience and molecules into the avatar world and say "Airbender bends the air so can bend the air out of your lungs," or "Waterbenders can bend the water in our bodies." It has not been done in the avatar universe nor has it been discovered. Such things like this really get one my nerves. Personally, I hope that I never fight you Aioria in a duel, cause then its going to be me against a munchkin.

I agree with Takano. Skill is the main thing in martial arts. Each martial artist has his advantage against others but that doesn't mean any are more powerful than the others. Each is even against the other and luck factors in every single battle, favoring either side in its own little (or big) way. One of the things my friend said about airbenders being so powerful is this. Aangs master (I forget his name) killed like so many firebenders (because of all the bodies littered around his body). In my head though I was screaming "BUT THEY ARE GRUNTS! THEY ARE EASY TO KILL WHEN YOUR A MASTER!"

*Munchkin is a D&D (Dungeon and Dragons) term I use to describe people who tend to use certain combos, abilities, exploit loopholes and overlook certain rules in games to make really powerful and cheap characters. Another termt hey go under is power gamer.
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hieu
Jan 2, 2007 22:28:58 GMT -6

Post by hieu on Jan 2, 2007 22:28:58 GMT -6

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Meh i still don't agree with you entirely Aioria. Look at Aang he's consider a master airbender, yet as far as we've seen he's been unable to hold onto air as a solid. What you are trying to do is either connected with the air already inside a person's body and then create wind force to push the air out or you are on some other path.

Aang hasn't been able to hold onto air like katara does with water. Water is a liquid substance and is like a touchable material. Air is always touched, but NEVER contained. Sure you can bottle something up, but you can't do anything else and that's simply because the air fills every place it can. in order for you to have someone's lung collapse u'd need to literally create a wind force upward out of the esophogus. That's fighting against the pressure already pushing to get in and the air that a person is breathing.

You make airbending sound like it's like water bending except with the air around us. Quite wrong. Every airbender we've seen all they do is create gusts in various directions. Some gusts are straight forward. Some gusts push upward on certain areas. Some are sphereical, but none of them are like water bending and just grab and pull. I'm assuming Katara could do the grab-pull with water because water benders do that. They grab and they push and pull it as they please, but airbenders don't pull they push.

Okay back to the skill thing
~~~~~
You argued that someone beat you because they got a 'lucky shot' Was that a lucky shot or did you just not know wat kind of attack he was sending at you? I could send wat looks like a crescent kick at our head, but if i twist it right i can turn it into a muay thai kick. Like i said it all goes back to knowledge and knowing what your opponent is doing. Most people are street fighters and have completely unorthadoxed moves which makes it harder to predict people.

Ever play something like super smash brothers melee? usually you can predict wat your opponent is doing. or at least that's what i do with my friend. His style is extremely well known to me and i defeat him easily and he's never gotten more than 2 kills in any given match since last year. Where i've killed him 5.

So what you consider luck i consider a slip of the mind and the idea behind reacting to it moving away from you and causing you to be unable to defend properly and react to it properly
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aioriakaji
Jan 3, 2007 8:03:02 GMT -6

Post by aioriakaji on Jan 3, 2007 8:03:02 GMT -6

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Yoshiro your just plain rude, so i'll just ignore someone who think he is so much better then others.

Takano, your arguments make sence, i know that a well placed fist can collaps a lung, so maybe if you can strike an air gush at the right place with enough force. Considerign you can move rocks out of there path, it should be possible.

About the luck part, believe me the guy was lucky lol. He should have just hit me in the face with his fist, but he kicked and slipped away. If he hadn't slipped i would hav ebeen able to block and front kick him in the corner, but he did lost balance and got his feet under my defence. so thats luck, not better skills
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ronin
Jan 3, 2007 14:44:59 GMT -6

Post by ronin on Jan 3, 2007 14:44:59 GMT -6

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Rude? No I am not being rude. Me being rude would be me without all pretenses or manners and would involve a few intense swears with a little bit of degrading comments that would make me seem like a real child. I didn't say any rude comments except that you were a munchkin, which seemed somewhat true considering how you were talking about bending and making a vacum aroudn the guys head, pulling air out completely from one's lungs. Aside from that I was being fairly polite. And neither do I think of myself as a know it all and done it all. So far what you have said and argued has not been enough to deter me from my beliefs. Give me some sufficent proof and/or awnsers and then I might change my oppinion. You ignoring me won't change anything, just makes you seem like a child ignoring someone's oppinoin. No offense but that is my stand view point.

So, onto bending. Yes, that sounds more logical and fair.

Now about skills vs. luck. If what you say was true then all drunken boxers moves would be considered lucky. And this is from your stand point. What about a side observers stand point? Your oppinent's stand point? To you its luck. To me, it sounds like an excuse until I have sufficent proof or oppinion.

Now, was that rude? I want both your oppinion and Takano's, just so that I know if it is or is not. :)
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Last edit by ronin: Jan 3, 2007 14:49:20 GMT -6
aioriakaji
Jan 3, 2007 15:01:44 GMT -6

Post by aioriakaji on Jan 3, 2007 15:01:44 GMT -6

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Munchkin is an insult to saisoned rpist, and you explaining the word make sit sound as you think i am an idiot.

For the luck vs skill part i never said luck was everything, just a factor to hold count of during a fight, it was not a drunken boxing move, it was a guy that tryed a high kick without knowing what he was doing, he had a bad position and got lucky that he hit me in the chin and knocked me out, if he had been unlucky he could have cracked his skull landing or so. I do sports since i am 5 and no athlete that i know will say that luck is not a part of the game

in rugby luck decides where the ball bounces off when it lands. (don't tell me you can controle that bounce, i played it for 12 years and never saw anyone controle it lol, you cna just inticipate it) in fighting its does a strike hit or not, the more skilled your are the less luck you need, but at the end of the day if its not your day your down.
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ronin
Jan 3, 2007 15:18:50 GMT -6

Post by ronin on Jan 3, 2007 15:18:50 GMT -6

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I am sorry if it sounded like I was calling you stupid, nor did I know that you were a seasoned RPer. I did the definition so that those who didn't know what I meant would know what it meant. Using the term was not something to make you sound like an idiot, nor did I think that you were. I don't know you nearly enough to make that assumption. I was stating the term for what I call people who I think are power gaming. (Bending the air out of one's lungs so they can't breath seems a bit too powerful in a world where all bendign styles are balanced).

You present a really good point. I was simply stating that until I have enough proof about this fight that I was saying what it sounded like to me. I am a man who needs more than one's oppinion or view on the event before I can make a real assumbtion.
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Last edit by ronin: Jan 3, 2007 15:19:40 GMT -6