May 13, 2006 14:01:48 GMT -6
Post by A Long Display Name Here on May 13, 2006 14:01:48 GMT -6
In Book 2, Chapter 7 "Zuko Alone," Zuko and little Azula hid behind the curtain to watch the conversation between Ozai and Fire Lord Azula.
It seems that Fire Lord (FL) Azula wanted to punish his younger son for suggesting that he give Iroh's birthright to him. Zuko leaves at this point, and runs to his room. Azula tells him later on that FL Azula was going to kill him. (Probably a lie)
However, FL Azula dies shortly after. What was the cause of his death, why was little Azula so smug, and why did he change his mind about the birthright?
My Opinion:
We already know at this point that little Azula is a ruthless girl, even at that young age she probably wouldn't hesitate to kill.
We know that FL Azula didn't want to give Iroh's birthright to Ozai. What happened to make him change his mind? Or, could it be that he didnt? FL Azula was old, we all saw that. He sought to punish Ozai for his suggestion that he give Ozai the birthright, we saw that too. Then, he conviniently dies a short time later, giving his "request" that Ozai be the successor.
My thought is that Ozai killed his own father, probably through Azula, who --as we all saw-- was just as ruthless as Ozai. (I'm thinking poisoned food or something to that effect delivered by Azula) Then, I think that Ozai changed, or had Azula change FL Azula's will, or (since we dont know there was a will) left a note, or had Azula leave a note saying that Ozai should get the birthright.
NOTE: I will delete posts that are not at least 200 characters long and are in-depth thoughts. I'm sick of one-liner posts.
Anonymous
May 13, 2006 14:37:57 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2006 14:37:57 GMT -6
OK here is what I truly think happened.
Remember when Zuko was woken up by his mother and she said "Zuko, my love, everything that I have ever done for you was to protect you!..." Zuko's mother must have tried to protect him. In that episode she says to little Azula "It's time for a talk" she must have asked what little Azula had heard. When Zuko's mother heard that Fire Lord Azula was to make Ozia kill Zuko. Zuko's mother must have tried to get Fire Lord Azula to reconsider but he wouldn't change his mind. Zuko's mother must have killed him by some kind of poison. Then right before he died Zuko's mother must have forced him to make Ozia Fire Lord and in exchanged she would save him from death. Then Fire Lord Azula must have said fine but died when Zuko's mother wouldn't save him. Then she must have left the Fire nation because she would be killed or punished and/or she didn't want to see Ozia find out what she had just done. If you looked at her outfit before we last saw her she put her hood up on what looked like a coat. If you can remember from the beginning of the 1st flashback Zuko's mother said to Zuko after he got bit in the foot by the turtle-duck mother. "That's what moms do. If you try to hurt there babies then chomp they'll bite you back." She must have felt that way when she heard that Zuko was going to be killed. That is just my opinion and it all fits with what has happened in the episode I think.
May 13, 2006 14:55:10 GMT -6
Post by A Long Display Name Here on May 13, 2006 14:55:10 GMT -6
I doubt that Zuko's mother would've killed FL Azula. There was nothing in her nature that would've suggested that she would've done so.
There's a big conflicting thing with your theory. Ozai wanted to be Fire Lord — if Zuko's mom made it possible for him to be so, there would've been no reason for her to run away.
Anonymous
May 13, 2006 15:08:54 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2006 15:08:54 GMT -6
Not to be mean to you but when you kill some one you do get in trouble plus she might not have wanted to get the family name ruined by what she has done. What other reason would she want to leave and say to Zuko what she said about doing everything for you etc. Plus Ozia looked (from what you can tell from looking at his back) he looked upset so if he did kill his father why would he be upset unless (I know this contradicts with what I said) he was upset that it made his wife leave him for killing his own father. Another reason why she would leave is not to be around with the war that might have started between Iroh finding out his birthright was taken from him and given to Ozia. That is the only reason I can think of her leaving but it raises another question why didn't she take Zuko or Azula with her (Probably not Azula with the way that she acts) but let's not answer the other question and let it just be a thought in our heads since this is about how Fire Lord Azula died.
May 13, 2006 16:29:06 GMT -6
Post by A Long Display Name Here on May 13, 2006 16:29:06 GMT -6
Um, just a suggestion — when you write, try not tom make everything a really long sentence. Work on your sentence structure, because the way you're writing now makes your post really hard to read.
Perhaps this is just a difference of opinion, but Ozai did not look all that upset to me. Also, Ozai, if he's as devious as he's being made out to be, would not have a problem would his wife killing his father. Besides, I doubt that Zuko's mother would do something like that — she even forbids Azula of speaking about people's deaths; why would she cause one?
If, in fact, she wanted to save Zuko from FL Azula (we don't know if that is true, because little Azula said it, and "Azula always lies," [Book 2, Chapter 7, "Zuko Alone"]) then why didn't she just flee with Zuko?
If Zuko's mom wanted to save her son, it would be easier to flee with him. By killing FL Azula, she'd have to run anyway (following your reasoning). Why not just save Zuko by bringing him with her? That way, she wouldn't be alone, and he would still be safe. Another hole in your logic.
May 15, 2006 13:44:43 GMT -6
Post by Gia on May 15, 2006 13:44:43 GMT -6
Just want to clear something up - I think his name was Azulon. They named Azula Azula as a more feminine version of her grandfather's name...
Now, this is a great discussion. I never really thought about. I just assumed that he died of natural causes. We don't know for sure that he was the picture of perfect health. Zuko's Mom said that, but she could always have been mistaken... Somehow, I don't think he was killed, though. At least not by Ozai or Azula...
Anonymous
May 16, 2006 17:51:22 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2006 17:51:22 GMT -6
To Karena I had the subtitles on so it said Azula. I know, that it sounds like a girl name but that is just what the subtitles said.
This is little more evidence why Zuko's mother is the one that killed Fire Lord Azula.
If you can remember from the flashback, it showed that Zuko was very much asleep when his mother woke him up. Plus, she did overhear what little Azula and Zuko were talking about in Zuko's room. Then right after that, Zuko's mother wanted to have a talk with Azula.
As to what you said about Zuko's mother not approving people talk about death, there is a simple reason. Azula, is a little girl, and little girls do not talk about death or evil things. Plus, there is a rule that says, you must respect your elders, meaning that Azula should not say bad things about her elders. With that said, we never truly find out what Zuko's mother really thinks, all we hear is what a mother should say to her child. Though sadly, I do think that, we will never truly find out who killed Fire Lord Azula.
taro
May 17, 2006 14:34:46 GMT -6
Post by taro on May 17, 2006 14:34:46 GMT -6
I think that Zuko's mom killed fire lord Azula.Cause when Zuko woke up his mom said everything I've done I've done to protect you, then she put her clock on and walled out the door.She could have gone to kill fire lord Azula cause he was suppose to kill Zuko, and she didn't want Zuko dead.
yuudai
May 21, 2006 0:18:00 GMT -6
Post by yuudai on May 21, 2006 0:18:00 GMT -6
I personally do not feel that Fire Lord Azula(on) died of natural causes. I never thought of all the evidence in that episode, but from what I remember, I got the distinct impression that Lord Azula was murdered. That much seemed obvious, at least to me. I do not see his mother being the murderer, I honestly believe she was killed. I do not think little Azula was lying when she claimed Zuko was to die. If we've seen anything of the respect system, it seems to me to be a fitting, yet horrible, punishment. From what I remember, I would not put it past Zuko's mother to sacrifice herself. I believe the cloak can be explained by saying that it is highly doubtful that she would be killed in the city. More likely that Ozai and her would spend her final moments together outside the city, and he would do the deed herself. It is possible he loved her enough not to let dirty hands do the job. Then, following the assumed love trail, Ozai could have slipped into depression quickly. He could easily have murdered the Firelord. So, in conclusion, I believe Azulan was murdered by Ozai, who was sickened by his own wife's death, because of his own impertinent remarks.
May 21, 2006 12:07:52 GMT -6
Post by A Long Display Name Here on May 21, 2006 12:07:52 GMT -6
These are good thoughts. However, do you have proof to back up your claim? I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just trying to get you to consider what you've seen so far. Get back to me on this, Yuudai. Thank you for your post, it is a relief to see punctuation again.
indianajane
May 21, 2006 12:16:58 GMT -6
Post by indianajane on May 21, 2006 12:16:58 GMT -6
Alright, this is my view.
Everyone remember when Zuko's mom said, "What is wrong with that child"? Well, I think that Ozai and Zuko's mom (anyone remember her name?) had an arranged marriage, and that Azula was the last straw for her. Like, living with Ozai was bad enough, but when you see this kid getting brattier and brattier, then you feel as though you failed as a parent or something. So Zuko's mom left, deciding that she didnt want to be around all these horrible people, even though she may have loved them. As for Azulons death, I think that he died of natural causes, like a heart attack or something. Now, Iroh had just lost his son. He was coming back from Ba Sing Sei, giving up the siege. I think Ozai reasoned with the advisors or whoever was in charge of this stuff, and convinced everybody that Iroh was unfit to be FL, that he showed 'Shameful weakness' Or that Iroh's son was killed On PURPOSE so that Iroh would withdraw from the position of FL so Ozai could be it. I mean, who would suspect Iroh's brother of killing his nephew when he was hundreds of miles away? Luten could have been injured, and the docter that was taking care of his wounds was hired by Ozai to kill Luten, so that Iroh woulndt want to be FL. Sounds to me like Iroh cared about his family, and wanted to be FL so that his son could have the best possible life. So when his son died, Ozai was able to become FL. Azula was just happy because since her father got what he wanted, so could she. Azula is a daddies little girl, and wasnt close to her mom, and Ozai didnt care about his wife, so they didnt care when she disapeared.
May 21, 2006 14:06:02 GMT -6
Post by Gia on May 21, 2006 14:06:02 GMT -6
Intersthing thoughs, both Yuudai and Jakita. I'm more inclined to agree with Yuudai thoughts. Those were some interesting thoughts. Now, here's what I have to say in response to Jakita:
Your thoughts were intersting as well, but I think I know of a line that can disprove it. I don't think that's the reason Ursa (that's what her name was) left because of Azula, because I think that there was more to her line, "Remember, everything I've done, I've done to protect you." At least, it's possible that she could have killed Fire Lord Azulan to protect Zuko, knowing that Zuko would be killed.
avatarluv09
May 21, 2006 14:12:56 GMT -6
Post by avatarluv09 on May 21, 2006 14:12:56 GMT -6
Her name was Ursa. ^ This is what I think. I believe that Ozai killed his own father just so he could become fire lord. But, Ursa knew or somehow found out that Ozai killed Azulon. There was an eye witness now. If someone was to ask how Azulon died, Ursa could tell everybody the truth that Ozai killed Azulon. She had to leave (or die)now. So when she tells Zuko that everything she has done she has done to protect him, she means that she is gonna leave(or die) to protect him from harm. Ozai might have told her that she was going to die because she knew or she had to leave and never return.
This is all my opinion.
May 21, 2006 22:04:51 GMT -6
Post by A Long Display Name Here on May 21, 2006 22:04:51 GMT -6
Just a note — remember what paragraphs are? Use them.[/u] ;D
Thank you, everyone who has participated in this thread. I really appreciate it.
Jakita — I have to agree with Karena on this one. Also, there isn't any proof I can recall that Ozai didn't love Ursa. Even if it was (as is most likely the case) an arranged marriage, sometimes the participants wind up being friends; sometimes, they even love each other. But I digress....I doubt that Ursa would've left because her daughter was a brat.
avatarluv09 — That's an interesting point of view. I never thought of it that way. Thanks for the insight![/color]
tyrande
May 22, 2006 13:58:56 GMT -6
Post by tyrande on May 22, 2006 13:58:56 GMT -6
Something just sprung to mind. What if Zuko really isn't the Fire Lord's son. Maybe, just maybe, he could be Ozai's step son. That would make sense. That would be why Azula hated Zuko, because he was adding something that the father's attention would have to go to. My real dad would never duel me to the death like Ozai did to Zuko. Maybe Ozai's wife died and that is why he is such a sour,mean, nasty man. (Just a thought)
May 22, 2006 14:08:23 GMT -6
Post by Gia on May 22, 2006 14:08:23 GMT -6
I believe that Zuko really is Ozai's son, and he's just a jerk, which is why he was going to do the Agni Kai with Zuko. He's mean, a jerk, and hated Zuko, because he believed him to be weak and worthless, and it's a simple as that.
zanisha
May 22, 2006 22:02:56 GMT -6
Post by zanisha on May 22, 2006 22:02:56 GMT -6
Ya I agree with Karena here. Zuko has to be Ozai's son after all that happened and all they showed. I mean what's the point of even showing us the whole "Zuko Alone" eppy if Zuko wasn't ozai's son?
shui
Jul 16, 2006 19:52:49 GMT -6
Post by shui on Jul 16, 2006 19:52:49 GMT -6
O.K I think that Fire Lord AZULON died because Ursa knew that what Azula said about Ozai going to kill Zuko was true! So Ursa had to kill him.Think about it Fire Nation personality they would do something like.Thats why Ursa said to Zuko " What ever I did here was for you" (or something like that)
And it is Azulon
karl
Nov 7, 2006 15:03:23 GMT -6
Post by karl on Nov 7, 2006 15:03:23 GMT -6
I just have one question. *revives old thread* Zuko's dagger, in Azula's possesion. What is her role in all of this. She was trying to steal it because she knew Ursu was gone, as she said later. She wouldn't yet be able to kill old Azulan, no matter how weak. She only knows basic firebending.
Ursu says something about Azulan being strong, or something like that. He wasn't likely to die of natural causes, but it could have been someone not in the family. Ozai's supporters, perhaps. Ursu found out. Such was Ozai's temper that he would kill anyone who could tell the world. Ursu was forced to leave, and couldn't tell Zuko because he would die. She fled somewhere, I don't know where, unless...
I'm not familiar with this section of the legend. Ursu: Firebending teacher of aang. 0.o