No, I agree Kami, Analyzing and creating hypothesis' for the character is good, and I like that too. With that in mind, I did assume your comment was more angry, and aggressive and that's why I made the comment about arguing over the characters, and for that I apologize.

I do, however, still believe that Mako is getting it a bit too hard. I also stand true to my comment about brothers, and blood. As wrong as it may be, it's true. I used my brother and I as an example but the entire gist of the rant was the fact that it's just not his place. I wouldn't want him to tell Mako, or Asami. The two of them are in a relationship - not Bolin, Mako, and Asami. If either of them have the intention of confronting anyone about the situation, then they should have with the person they're in a relationship with and while Asami did, she just let it go, and should have pushed harder if she were really THAT UPSET over it. THEN if Mako lied, and said nothing happened - THEN it would his fault entirely, and I would feel he should get the back burner. That didn't happen, she didn't push for the truth but instead went behind Mako and to his brother and put BOLIN in an awkward position which isn't fair.

I do not think Mako is right in what he did, but it was a mistake, and mistakes happen. We don't see everything these characters are going through, and while it may not seem he was brooding over the big ol' kiss, because that's so horrible, I'm sure he did feel bad, and he had mixed feelings from the get go. In any case, I still like all of the characters and definitely feel like Asami went up in my book for showing emotional range.

Sorry about the tone earlier. ^_^;' I wasn't angry, just ... passionate. Ahahaha. I suppose that without hearing the way I was thinking those words, it'd be easy to mistake as aggression. Sorry about that! Now, onto the topic at hand.

Here are some well written articles on the subject:

Why Mako's Behaviour is Unacceptable and Should Not Be Excused Based on His Gender
Why this "typical guy behaviour" from Mako is Problematic

Now, for me personally addressing your points (bear with me! Lengthy is likely xD):

I do, however, still believe that Mako is getting it a bit too hard. I also stand true to my comment about brothers, and blood. As wrong as it may be, it's true. I used my brother and I as an example but the entire gist of the rant was the fact that it's just not his place. I wouldn't want him to tell Mako, or Asami. The two of them are in a relationship - not Bolin, Mako, and Asami.

Excusing inappropriate actions with familial relationships is archaic, and quite honestly from this point of view strikes me as unintentionally sexist. Imagine, for instance, if Asami were your sister, or some real female you cared about. Would you want her to remain in the dark until her boyfriend decided when it was appropriate to tell her about his infidelity, even if other people knew? You're saying how you wouldn't want your brother to do it if you were in Mako's shoes — but what about if you were in Asami's shoes? That's my biggest issue with this whole "Oh Mako did something wrong but Bolin and Korra and Asami did something wrong too". People are not seeing it from Asami's eyes, just Mako's, and I think therein lies the problem.

I really hate to be saying "sexism" over this show, because the creators did an amazing job with AtLA and making Sokka see the errors of his sexist opinions — and I think they will do the same with Mako and his stupidity. However, fan reactions are problematic: "Yes Mako did something wrong, but Asami was also wrong for xyz reason THEREFORE Mako is being judged too harshly" —- no. He is his own person. Asami's actions don't mitigate his reactions to the situation.

Let's break this down.

Asami had no problem with Korra and Mako being friends. None at all. Not a shred of jealousy for their closeness or the amount of time they spent with each other.

Asami's "jealousy" only surfaced when Ikki mentioned that Korra likes Mako. Korra didn't address it then — which was wrong, she should have. I think she meant to, had they not been interrupted by Tenzin.

So now Asami is worried, and rightfully so. Korra and Mako have so much in common! They're both benders, and she's not. They're separated by class — Asami is rich, Mako and Korra are not. I think this shows that for all her beauty, for all of her strength on the battlefield (so to speak), Asami is an insecure person and she is worried that Mako will begin to fall for Korra. Or worse, that he already has. Asami is not stupid. She can see the way he looks at her, see how he treats her, his over-the-top concern for her well being that exceeds how concerned you'd be for a friend.

Now Korra, on the other hand, is trying to move past it. She recognises her feelings for Mako, but he ultimately rejected her and she hurt Bolin in the process. She's not going to make that same mistake again, especially now that she genuinely likes Asami and views her as a friend, rather than through the lens of suspicion she once had. Korra has tried to keep it neutral (even asking Mako if they can be FRIENDS), treating both brothers as friends rather than trying to get close to Mako beyond friendship.

Asami is not suspicious, she's worried. She cares for Mako, and doesn't want to lose him. But, she's also a very strong, and independent woman: she's not going to ignore any wrongdoing for the sake of the relationship.

So she asks Bolin who first of all tries to lie and cover up for his brother. It is not Bolin's responsibility to field any questions about his brother's wrongdoing. Should Asami have tried to ask Mako first? Probably, but having personally been in a similar situation, she is likely worried about what Mako would tell her — or if he'd tell her anything. Bolin is a poor liar, and he knows it, so of course Asami tried to get him to tell her the truth, which he willingly does. Bolin and Asami are also friends, and Bolin was absolutely in the right for telling her what she had suspected. It was the moral, responsible thing to do, and his blood-relation to Mako does not mean that his responsibility to be a decent person is negated in favour of trying to hide his brother's mistakes.

Let's see this from Asami's eyes, now. Mako makes physical contact with Korra whenever he can. A hug here, a touch on the hand there. When they find Korra after she was abducted, everyone rushed forward to help her, but Mako pushed his way to the front. He stayed by her bedside as she recovered, his eyes only on Korra. This is more than just friendship, and Asami can see that, especially since she knows now that the feeling is mutual between Korra and Mako.

So what does she do? With a little urging from Pema, who was wise enough to see her frustration, she confronts Mako, giving him at least two opportunities to come clean of his own accord. Mako doesn't — whether it's because he is trying to intentionally lie about it, or because he cannot fathom that she would have discovered it so the thought doesn't cross his mind to tell the truth. EITHER WAY, he had a few opportunities to do it of his own accord.

But he doesn't, so Asami tells him she knows.

Instantly, Mako deflects — Darn that Bolin, getting involved! To which Asami rightfully responds:



She is not upset with Bolin. She is not even upset that they kissed (at least, not as much). What she's really upset about is that Mako. Lied. There are two ways to lie — directly, or through omission. Mako did both, to her face; and now she feels like their ENTIRE relationship was a lie.

Now at this point, Mako still has a chance not to be a jerk. He could have said, "Yes, Korra and I kissed. I'm sorry I didn't tell you and I'm sorry I did it. Can we talk about it later, though? We need to get ready to face Amon." He could have said, "Yes I did those things and I'm sorry, let's talk about it now." He could have just said, "Yes, Asami. I'm sorry. Will you forgive me?"

But does he? No. He completely blows off her concerns and her feelings by telling her there are MORE IMPORTANT things. This is classic deflection / manipulation, even if Mako doesn't see it that way. "Oh, yeah, okay, those are your feelings, but there are OTHER THINGS that take precedence so your feelings don't matter right now."

To top it off, at the end of the episode, he continues to blow off his girlfriend in favour of Korra. He puts his arm around her and leads her away from the tragedy that affects them all, Asami the most considering her father betrayed her, and now her boyfriend is cavorting with another woman right in front of her face.

So all in all, while Mako might be a good guy at heart he is being the biggest jerk in a four-jerk circus. Bolin's actions (which were right, despite the original attempt at lying, because GOOD PEOPLE will tell other people if they are being cheated on if asked), Asami's actions, and Korra's actions not only (a) pale in comparison to Mako's, but (b) they do not negate what Mako did, and what he's CURRENTLY doing.

And I agree with you Kami. Everything you said, yes. I realize the it is sexist, and double standards are all throughout my argument. I do not deny that, but here's the difference. If my sister were getting cheated on (which I do have a sister, but she hasn't been cheated on) and I KNEW, well I no I wouldn't go to her initially. I'd go to the scumbag boyfriend and have a word with him. That is MY mentality and that is how I would react. Then I would tell my sister after anything did or did not happen. My brother though, it would be his problem.

I grew up having to figure stuff out on my own, fixing my own problems, and I still do. I may be wrong in applying my own opinions and personal experiences with these characters and assuming that's how they should act, but that is what I believe. I'm stubborn, and even though you are clearly right in everything you say Kami, I do not agree about Mako, I suppose, being at complete fault. The entire charade could have been avoided had the kiss never happened. He would have still harbored feelings for her, but it would have been just that, feelings. Still, it's not Korra's fault, or Bolin's and most definitely NOT Asami's but Mako, I feel, is still being looked at through a single lens. His a horrible guy because of this, but he's taken care of his brother his entire life, he rescued his friend because she was in danger, and he is going to continue to be there for his brother, and his friends.

Sure he did this one thing to negatively impact his karma, but he's done a lot more good to give him a buffer.

"I realise it is sexist" — no. Stop. You realise it's sexist. Now you should stop being sexist. :]


Why would there be a difference for your sister? Because she's a girl and needs to be protected? Do you see the problem with this? There should be no moralities based on gender, that's just ridiculous. Why would you go and be a macho-tough-guy instead of telling your sister the truth? Do you see the problem here? This mentality goes beyond just this show, between relationships, and strikes at the core of many of our societal problems.

I think you should take a good, hard look at why you feel the need to protect your sister and not your brother. I think you'll find that your views on women need some updating.



Sure, this whole debacle could've been avoided if Korra hadn't kissed him. Or, it could've even been avoided if he had pushed Korra away and told her NO instead of kissing her back. Or he could've avoided this by going straight to Asami and letting her know and apologising.

OR since the kiss happened, he could've told her any time between then and now. Or told her when she confronted him initially.

OR HE COULD HAVE APOLOGISED when given the opportunity to do so, instead of trying to belittle Asami's feelings.

I think you're missing the point. Just because he did all of those things doesn't mean he's not being a jerk, or that his jerkiness could be excused. He has yet to take responsibility for his actions as well, or apologise for betraying Asami's trust.

It doesn't matter how many good things you do in other areas. If you're being a jerk, you're being a jerk, you shouldn't get a pass because "Oh he's such a nice guy OTHERWISE."

People angry at Mako's behaviour aren't saying he's a bad guy — just that he's an otherwise GOOD guy being a HUGE jerkface. He cheated on his girlfriend, kept it hidden, tried to lie about it, and now refuses to apologise. I don't care if he saved a basketful of newborn kittens from a burning building, that doesn't mean he is being any less of a jerk even though he's overall a nice person.

Again, look at it if it were your sister. Would you allow someone to do this to her? You called someone cheating on your sister a scumbag before. What if he was exactly like Mako?

Mako's not getting it hard enough in my opinion.

MIND BLOWN. Haha I'll just always think of him as perpetually 16 or so.... Ah, well.

Also, clearly Mako should have apologized and not blown Asami off. He shouldn't have lied, either. He did so many things that seem so clearly wrong that I simply have to believe they'll address it at some point during the show. Like "look, Mako, you're a lying cheat, I'm dumping your ass." Which really, she should do. The man's not treating her very nicely right now.

As for the Bolin stuff... Considering Bolin and Asami are friends now, I would say it makes sense for him to tell her when she asked. But if I were Bolin, and even if Mako were just my better friend and not my brother, I would have backed out and said I wasn't getting involved. That's also speaking as someone who's been stuck in the middle between two friends in a relationship before, so who knows.

I concede to you Kami. For two reasons, I genuinely agree with you. I still think Mako is getting it really hard, but that's just my opinion. Also, I'm tired of debating. This has two reasons as well; you're right on just about everything, I may not agree, but you are right. Also, these are characters, and we have nothing to do with them.

However, to answer your question. I should have been more specific; I protect my sister, and my little brother, but not my older brother. I feel the need because they're my younger brother, and my sister. Not because she's a girl (though it may have been shaped from the whole 'Girls need protecting' thing I was raised to believe) and my little brother is well, my little brother, it's been that way since I was eight.

Also, I have the utmost respect for woman. You have absolutely no idea; I won't go into details as I don't want to derail from the thread any more than I have already. I appreciate the debate though, and hope this hasn't offended anyone.

P.S. I don't condone anything Mako has done, but I just think it's a little harsh.

Sorry for the derailment, in part, but it was mostly about his actions during episode ten that started my opinion-voicing on the subject, so it's still relevant. :] Additionally our OOC rules do state that as long as the thread continues with a 'natural progression' that it won't be considered off-topic even if it differs slightly from the original. :]

Anyway, it HAS gotten derailed a bit, but we'll move on now. :]]

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I want to point out something regarding the episode as well: apparently there are non-bender officers! They are not on the 'beat', but that will be brought up with TARP staff. :]

I thought it was interesting, though, to see that they did employ non-benders AND earth/metal benders, and I recall someone saying something in another thread that the power of the Police was in benders' hands — but it's not, not wholly.

:]

omg I love him and his fancy hair. just saying.

He looks just like a prince!
I will die if he says any of the following things:
1. Something regarding tea
2. "Honor."
3. "Hello, Iroh here!"

I am counting on him saying at least one of those things. Please, please let him say any of those things. Preferably involving jasmine tea. Come on.

He is totally the Disney prince of this show.

RIP Mako (the actor, not the character)

You know, if he's the son of the Fire Lord, doesn't that also make him a prince? I'm sure his title as General is well-earned, though. A military career hasn't been uncommon among the royal family.

Technically, yes. Not necessarily the crown prince though.